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October 04, 2005

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right: the Conservatives and the electoral system: a summary

Preface

If the Conservatives had drawn level with Labour in 2005, with each party polling 33.8% of the vote, Labour would have secured 336 seats and the Tories just 220. That is an unfair lead of 18% of all the seats in the House of Commons. For the Conservatives to win outright with a majority of two, with 324 seats, they would need a national lead of 11.7%. This is a larger margin than they had as the governing party in 1979 and 1987, and all for a majority of two.

Explaining this discrepancy—this blatant bias in British politics—is at once fiendishly complex and infuriatingly simple. The simple answer is that the bias is the consequence of the First-Past-the-Post voting system used to elect MPs, a system the Conservatives couldn't support more vehemently.

The complexities are dealt with in the Electoral Reform Society's new briefing, 'The Conservatives and the electoral system'. It's a must (if perhaps slightly painful) read for any Conservative, supporter or MP, and one which I intend to share over the course of this week, broken down into smaller, more manageable chunks, like something off late-night BBC exam-time television. (Impatient souls can download the full PDF now.)

However, in the hip and exciting world of the Interweb, fewer and fewer people have time to read such things, even in bitesize form, especially if they believe they're going to spend a long time reading something they'd rather not hear. So, in the name of accessibility and altruism, I've prepared a shorter, snappier, version, concentrating on the key points and swerving some of the psephology. Continue reading, or remain unenlightened.

That politics is about power is about as simple and axiomatic a statement as you'll ever come across. It is, however, a little too simple. Power, you see, is no good on its own; in the dirty world of politics it either comes at the expense of somebody else or it's nothing. It's the same, largely pointless, keeping-up-with-the-Joneses nonsense based on people's daft pre-occupation with what strangers think of them used to cripple human progress and sell Volvos. Anyone who says otherwise is either a child or a fool and should be ignored or slapped until they see sense or the inside of a padded cell.

Similarly, anyone who can justify the following stat in the name of anything resembling common sense or common decency should be awarded the Nobel Price for Rhetoric.

In 1992 the Conservatives under John Major outpolled Labour by 7.6 percentage points but got an overall majority of only 21. [In 2001], by contrast, although Tony Blair did only a little better than John Major, leading the Conservatives by 9.3 points, he won a majority of 167. —The Economist, April 8th 2005

This also means that it takes about twice as many votes to elect a Conservative MP as it does to elect a Labour MP. If I was a Tory voter, I think I'd be mildly aggrieved that I was deemed only half as worthy of my place in the democratic system as a random Labour counterpart.

Yet despite this, the Conservatives, for reasons born out of either blind optimism or wilful ignorance refuse to even think about what could be done to even things up. Were it simply a refusal to change anything, one could perhaps understand it, but failure to even consider possible solutions smacks of stubborn stupidity.

Under such circumstances, one is usually best advised to let the ignorant rot, "never smarten up a chump", as W.C. Fields would say. But that seems a little too cruel, and I never take advice from men named after a toilet. And besides, we've seen the trouble a majority government without effective opposition can wreak in too many foul and inhumane ways recently to sit by and do nothing.

So here we go… This isn't intended to be a typical 'FPTP is rubbish, STV would be much better' exposition—we have plenty of them already, and the Tories have ignored every single one. The purpose of this piece is to awaken the Conservatives to issues they've up until now simply pretended didn't exist, but which they would be well-advised to engage with. And if at the end they still choose to champion FPTP, that's okay, but at least they'd be doing it from an informed, rather than a party-political, basis.

The ERS report is split into five main sections: the 2005 election, the boundary review, how boundaries can bias the system against the Conservatives (but how they really aren't that important), the real reasons for bias, and what can be done about it. For ease of reference, I'll follow pretty much the same course here.

The 2005 Election

Overall bias

A common argument used to defend FPTP from a Conservative point of view is that it may be biased in favour of Labour now, but one day the pendulum will swing and it will be the Tories that are able to repress free speech and execute Brazilians or whatever else they feel like doing in the name of justice, combating terrorism or placating Rupert Murdoch.

This misapprehends the history of electoral bias and vastly underestimates the current state of play.

The principal means of measuring electoral bias is to consider how the two main parties would fare against each other if there were a uniform swing from the party that won the popular vote to the runner-up, such that they drew level on votes. To see how electoral bias has operated since the end of Second World War, see this chart. (*=estimate of result using new boundaries that came into force in 1974, 1983 and 1997 respectively)

The system hasn't worked in the Tories' favour since the 50s. Throughout the 60s and 70s, Labour experienced a small bias, a lead of about 20 seats on level votes, but nothing particularly impressive. However, since 1992, things have gone a bit crazy. In 1992, the bias was 38 seats in Labour's favour. In 1997 this had increased to 79. By 2001, following a 1.8% swing to the Conservatives that saw almost no seats change hands, the level votes scenario had Labour ahead by 140 seats. This monstrous figure was tamed slightly in 2005, to 116 seats, still wildly out of line with historical figures. Tony Blair may have been the fertiliser that caused the bias to grow so fast so quickly, but that is no reason to think he'll take it with him when he leaves. It is more likely, given the Prime Minister's declining popularity, that his departure could increase the bias further.

Bias in England

Surprisingly little was made of the fact that the Conservatives polled 65,704 more votes than Labour in England, yet ended up with 92 fewer seats. Whether this was because they realised bemoaning this statistic would mean people like us would badger them some more about electoral reform, or whether it was because they lacked the balls to campaign wholeheartedly for an English parliament is hard to say. Either way, it's an important issue.

The reason for the Tories getting battered seat-wise in England, despite having more votes than Labour lies in the metropolitan areas. Outside of London, the Conservatives won just five out of 124 urban seats. That's five MPs for 1.1 million votes, votes that under a more proportional system would have returned 30 MPs. This is a larger problem than just fewer metropolitan members in the Commons. As the report states: "FPTP has not only weakened the voice of the Conservatives in the big cities, it has also weakened the voice of the big cities within the Conservative party… the perception that a minority party does not matter in the area is self-reinforcing." Talented Tories, if they wish to rise up the ranks, are forced to abandon their local area in order to have their say, thus further lessening the chances of the Tories winning seats in the cities.

But enough of England; things only start to get really amusing across the borders.

Bias in Scotland and Wales

There were 59 seats up for grabs in Scotland in the 2005 general election. Labour got 40 of them (67.8%) on just under 39% of the vote, at a cost of 22,681 votes per MP. The Conservatives only managed to elect one MP, at a slighter grander cost of 369,388 votes.

In 1997 and 2001, the quarter of a million Conservatives in Wales failed to elect a single MP. 2005 was therefore, a time for much celebration, as they scooped three seats (albeit two by wafer-thin majorities of 133 and 607) at just under 100,000 votes per seat. Labour polled almost exactly twice as many votes as the Conservatives in Wales, and were rewarded with almost ten times as many seats (29) at just 20,511 votes each.

It's not all bad news, however. When Scotland and Wales were devolved, and the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly were created, it was thought that allocating seats in such a ridiculous manner would be a bit stupid and would not lead to either public support or effective governance. With this in mind, they opted to hold the devolved elections under fairer systems, thus saving the Conservative Party from Celtic oblivion.

The boundary question, or why Oliver Heald is a bit of an idiot

Would the Hon. Gentleman accept that the bias in the system at present is mostly accounted for by variations in size between constituencies throughout the United Kingdom? If we had an equal electoral quota that was properly implemented throughout the country so that constituencies were the same size we would have a much more proportional system and one that did not have the bias within it? —Oliver Heald, speaking in the Commons, June 22 2005

Talking about the 'unfair' state of constituency boundaries is the Conservative Party's way of dealing with the electoral bias in Britain. In Conservative World, it is easy to see that the average Conservative seat contains more electors than the average Labour seat, and thus easy to see where the problem lies. Take Heald's quote above, Boris on Question Time, or Peter Oborne in the Spectator. They should, I suppose, all be commended on spotting that something is wrong, but their pronouncements as to why things are wrong are equally erroneous.

The net effect of the new boundary changes, (based on data from February 2000 and not likely to be used for Westminster elections until at least 2009) if used in 2005 would have been to increase the number of Conservative MPs by around seven, reduce Labour MPs by six and increase Lib Dem MPs by three, thus reducing Labour's majority from 66 to 50. Nothing special, in other words, and nowhere near explaining the bias highlighted earlier. The only thing it will do is make it harder for Labour to have a majority despite a Conservative lead in votes; it will make little difference to Conservative chances of establishing a majority of their own.

There is a more subtle, and arguably more important, aspect to the redrawing of boundaries than the mere creation and elimination of certain seats. For example, making certain Labour-held marginals more or less difficult for the Conservatives to gain on a given national swing. Due to knock-on effects and the fact that some people's voting behaviour will change when they are put in a new constituency, the more subtle outcomes of boundary changes are generally very hard to account for, however clever a party's lawyers may be.

Take Northamptonshire as an example. Northamptonshire is due another seat, an increase from six to seven, due to population growth in the mainly Conservative areas in the south west of the county. The Conservatives thus now have an extra safe seat (South Northamptonshire). However, South Northamptonshire robs surrounding marginals of key Conservative voters, enough to wipe out their thin majorities in Northampton South and Kettering and almost in Wellingborough too, meaning a net loss of one seat for the Tories.

Overall, therefore, fiddling with the boundaries is all a lot of posturing with very little purpose. To make this abundantly clear, one needs only look at how the difference in constituency size has changed, or rather not changed, over the years. As this chart (*='notional' figure if the boundaries introduced in 1997 had been used in 1992) shows better than any amount of words and numbers could, size really doesn't matter; anyone who spots a correlation between this chart and the earlier one showing overall bias might want to book an appointment with their local optician. Perhaps Mr Heald would like to print them out and stick them on his wall.

For a full explanation of how the boundary commission works, including the specific changes to constituency boundaries, see the full report.

The real reasons for bias

Bias summarised

With boundaries being consistently tilted in Labour's favour since the advent of rock and roll, and overall bias only really taking off along with grunge in the early nineties, there must be some other, significantly more important, factors to explain why the system hates the Tories. And there are, namely, differential turnout and inefficient vote distribution, including political and electoral strategy and tactical voting.

Differential turnout

Turnout in 2001 fainted like that time Margaret Thatcher fell face first from the podium during a conference speech. And like the Iron Lady, it hasn't recovered.

The unprecedented fall in votes was concentrated in the most working-class safe labour constituencies. In 2001, turnout in Labour seats was only 58.0%, as opposed to 65.3% in Conservative seats. Combined with a 9.1% difference in electorate size, the actual gap in terms of voters was 22.9%—47,618 people voted in the average Conservative seat and only 38,739 in the average Labour seat—a gap ten times larger than the equivalent figure in 1959.

Blame Blair, or blame the general shift in British political attitudes, but don't blame the boundaries.

There's not a lot that can be done about this; compulsory voting would eliminate the difference, but it's very unlikely to help the Conservatives—Labour would gain in the vote, but seats would probably remain unchanged.

For a more detailed explanation, involving a lovely little example, check the full report.

Inefficient vote distribution

One of the more successful items of nineties ephemera were 'No Fear' branded T-shirts. They're still going, but you don't see nearly as many of them these days. They became popular through whacking competitive and rebellious slogans on cheap pieces of material, such that the wearer might be deemed a cross between James Bond and Evel Knievel. One such slogan was 'second place is the first loser.' It was (not) known in the trade as the 'First-Past-the-Post' slogan.

Coming second under FPTP is pointless, vote for a second place candidate and you might as well have voted for the Monster Raving Loony. No one cares about you. This is why a move that would encourage a few hundred extra people to vote Labour in a tight marginal, but alienate a few thousand up in Liverpool is worth doing, politically speaking.

This is how FPTP distorts the political process—it encourages negative campaigning, as there is no need to be any good if you can make your opponent appear worse; it alienates millions of people as their votes don't make a bit of difference to how the country is run, all because of where they live and it reduces policy-making to short-termist tat specifically engineered to bribe the special voters into placing their cross in the correct box. Defenders of FPTP defend this as the best means of running an effective, democratic country.

There is no way to fix inefficient vote distribution through redrawing boundaries. As the full report states:

While there are substantial numbers of Conservative supporters in South Yorkshire, for instance, there is simply no way of corralling enough of them into a single-member constituency to give them a chance of winning a seat, however much one bends the boundaries. The Labour vote being 'lumpier' (more efficiently distributed), it does tend to be able to achieve representation where it is locally in a minority, although there are cases such as Surrey where it is too thinly and evenly spread.

It continues:

Avon provides an insight into how the system can work against a party with evenly spread support. In 2005 the Conservatives were very narrowly the most popular party in the county, with 31.9% support to 31.8% for Labour and 30.9% for the Lib Dems. Yet they won only 2 seats, compared to 3 for the Lib Dems and 5 for Labour.

It should also be noted that in Avon the average Conservative seat is slightly smaller than the average Labour and Lib Dem seats.

Part of the reason for the Conservatives' relatively inefficient vote distribution is tactical voting, which has become increasingly clever since 1992, with voters in 2005 able to consult a number of websites to find out how best to vote against the Tories, including 'swapping' their vote with someone in another constituency.

Post-1992 bias summarised

The change in the vote share of the three main parties since 1992 is as follows:

Conservatives - 9.8%
Labour + 1.5%
Lib Dem + 3.7%

Allowing for boundary changes, and assuming these changes took place uniformly, the outcome of the 2005 election would have been very different. In short, the Conservatives would have been 48 seats better off, taking 30 from Labour, 16 from the Lib Dems and two from the others.

Labour's success in manipulating the voting system is "the stuff of politics rather than boundary distribution or electoral mechanics". FPTP puts such a premium on swing voters in marginal seats that whoever works them the most effectively runs off with all the prizes. The Conservatives might think, therefore, that all they need to do is ape Blair, and win these voters back. They might want to think again.

"There is no reason not to expect a substantial pro-Labour bias in terms of translating national share of the vote into seats."

Despite 'tactical unwind', and the culling of some superfluous Scottish seats, the bias in 2005 was still monumental. The problems of differential turnout and inefficient vote distribution are not going anywhere fast, and whoever emerges from the current interminable leadership contest is going to have to either work with them or realise that to eliminate them he must eliminate FPTP.

The Conservatives and electoral reform

FPTP is an obstacle to the Conservatives in the essential business of politics, namely regaining power. If the Conservatives are happy existing with a bit under a third of the vote, a comfortable lock on representing some of the more attractive places in England, and very little chance of power, they should stick with FPTP. If the Conservatives have more ambitious aims, they need to look further.

Over the last thirteen years, the power of the Conservative party in relation to Labour has atrophied to a startling degree. They spectacularly failed to respond to the shifting structure of British party politics and the desires of the nation as a whole. A series of nondescript leaders have been as useless at combating Tony Blair as they have been at combating their own alopecia. There is no reason to suggest this malaise is about to disappear.

Complaining about the boundaries is a pointless distraction from the real problems. Playing with boundaries will not, indeed cannot, solve the Conservatives' problems.

The electoral system bias means the Conservatives can't 'do a Labour' and win back power on 35% of the vote. Outside of some form of deluded dreamland, there is no way to reverse this situation; these problems are very real and will continue to plague the Tories for the foreseeable future.

There is, however, a way to even it up. Under any voting system, the Conservatives need to propel themselves into the 40% level of support to gain back governmental power. Under a reformed system, unlike under FPTP, Labour would need to do this too.

Winning back enough voters to push support over the 40% mark has proved to be very difficult for the Tories, largely because New Labour have commandeered so much of their traditional ground. Simply offering a change of management, especially given the large level of post-Black-Wednesday ill feeling associated with the Conservatives' ability to run the country competently isn't all that appealing. This situation isn't helped by a voting system that encourages negativity at the expense of real policy debate and demands that you focus your policies to the same few hundred thousand key voters, thus limiting scope for offering a real alternative.

The Conservatives are by no means compelled to embrace a change; new systems could well bring about new problems. But that doesn't mean that any new problems are in any way as bad or intractable as the ones they face under FPTP, and to dismiss the entire debate when it could result in both a better future for the Tories and a better future for the country as a whole is bordering on retarded.

Posted by pauldavies on October 04, 2005

Comments

Questions:

How do we get change? Labour has to agree to change, or lose sufficient seats for the other parties to force change through.

Are there Tories who secretly want change, but are too scared to say so?

How would the Tories do with AV?

Jackie Ashley thought a pact of One Nation Tories and Orange Book Liberals was a possibility, but that the Tories wouldn't agree electoral reform.

How about STV for the second chamber acting as a brake on the Commons elected by FPTP, or AV?

I would publicise this on politicalbetting.com. A lot of Tories use that site.

Posted by: Andrew Kitching at October 4, 2005 05:46 PM

"How do we get change? Labour has to agree to change, or lose sufficient seats for the other parties to force change through."

Crudely - convince someone with real power that it is in their self interest. Quite how we do that, as anyone with any real power will likely lose it under a non-FPTP system, is what ERS have been wondering since 1884.

"Are there Tories who secretly want change, but are too scared to say so?"

I couldn't possibly say. There are a couple (very much single figures) but to come out in favour of reform would probably mean the opposition whip would shoot them (I'm only sort of kidding).

"How would the Tories do with AV?"

They'd be shat on.

"Jackie Ashley thought a pact of One Nation Tories and Orange Book Liberals was a possibility, but that the Tories wouldn't agree electoral reform."

The problem with this one (as I mentioned in commenting on Ashley's piece) is that whereas the MPs might be amenable to such a pact, the supporters would have fits (on both sides)

"How about STV for the second chamber acting as a brake on the Commons elected by FPTP, or AV?"

I tend to stay away from Lords arguments until I've got around to writing about it, but as I've made clear before, I'm not in favour of an elected house - the Lords has done incomparably more to protect our democracy than NL, to start making it susceptible to the whims of the masses would be effective suicide in terms of the good governance of this country. The Lords acts as a good brake already. What we need is a more effective brake in the commons itself, to stop parliament jut pushing things through when the Lords (rightly) tells them they're crap.

Posted by: Paul Davies at October 4, 2005 10:17 PM

I'm going to post this up on our site - a great article.

Posted by: Apollo Project at October 5, 2005 04:13 PM

Thanks Tabman :)

Posted by: Paul Davies at October 5, 2005 06:22 PM

I think it's less straightforward than you think.

The Conservatives don't actually lose out under FPTP, as their share of seats in Parliament is roughly proportionate to their vote share, at present. If their vote share were to increase, they could expect their seat share to increase by more than the increase in their vote share.

If PR were introduced, Labour would certainly lose out, but the gainers would be the Lib Dems and minor parties. Most Conservatives see no advantage in that.

FPTP also gives the Conservatives a lock on right wing voters. If PR were introduced, the Conservatives would shed some voters to people like UKIP, BNP etc (and indeed Labour and Lib Dems would also shed votes to minor parties). The wasted vote argument could no longer be used against the minor parties.

And rightly or wrongly, most Conservatives don't believe that Labour will continue to benefit from tactical voting to the extent that it has done in the last three elections. Anti-Conservative tactical voting began to go into reverse in 2005, (strikingly so in places like Southgate and St. Albans), and many Conservatives believe that that process will accelerate in the future, as the government becomes less popular over time.

It all depends whether you think the pattern of tactical voting established in 1997 is a permanent feature of the electoral system, or whether it simply represented a huge desire to kick out an unpopular government, and then to keep them out again in 2005.

But (regardless of the rights and wrongs of PR) there seem to me to be fairly cogent arguments for the Tories to stick with the current system.

Posted by: Sean Fear at October 5, 2005 08:07 PM

Paul, just like to say what an excellent article this is. I am going to post my thoughts about this on my blog and I will certainly link here to this article.

I am a Labour supporter, so it might surprise you that I found this very depressing reading from a Labour party point of view. I passionately believe it is in Labour's interests to change to a more proportional system and I also think the Tories reluctance to embrace change is because they see the long term advantage FPTP gives them. I will explain why;

A lot of the points in this article confirms what I have been arguing with FPTPers for some time.

The depressed vote in deprived urban areas is caused by a realisation by the voters of the 'reduced value' of their vote in a safe seat but also because the parties can afford to ignore these voters when making policy, precisely because their vote is of less value.

This is most damaging to the Labour party in the long term because these voters are more likely to be left of centre Labour supporting voters.

The longer the FPTP system continues, the more the Labour party will be forced to ignore these voters in favour of the 'special' more middle class voters in marginals and the more right wing Labour's policies become as a result, the more turnout will drop in urban areas.

The longer this spiral of decline continues, the more difficult it will be for parties to win back these voters, and the more this country will become like the US.

As these 'lost' voters were more likely to be left wing and support Labour, it is the Labour party who will be damaged the most in the long term, especially when the Tories enlarge and manipulate the boundaries (see below).

Although the present system's bias 'may' be enough to help Labour win the next election, I am thinking more ahead than 8 years to what will become once again a right wing Tory hegemony under FPTP. Like death and taxes, it is not a case of 'if' the Tories win again but 'when'.

Paul, you say it is 'impossible' to change the boundaries in the Tory favour, but this is where I disagree. It 'may' be virtually impossible with boundaries at their present size, but not if you increase their size and also take away the onus on the boundary commission to respect natural boundaries in making their decision. Look at how gerrymandering has been made into an art form in the US, where no restrictions are made on boundary shape or size.

This could easily be made into a vote winning move by the Tories. With the help of the Tory supporting majority of the media, they could get 'sympathy' votes by playing up the unfairness of the boundaries of the present system and also get votes for promising to reduce the number of MPs, always bound to be popular with the electorate.

The reason you are 'smashing your head up a brick wall' with the Tories is not because they don't realise the bias in the system but because they know the lower turnout in urban areas will favour them in the future.

The Tories are a lost cause as far as electoral reform is concerned. There may be a few who accept the 'moral' argument that it is good for democracy but most are looking for 'party political advantage' arguments not 'moral' arguments. This is why not a single Tory MP supports PR.

The Labour party however is a different matter. Already over 100 Labour MPs support PR and they are the party in power who can make the change. Pressure on them to honour their referendum pledge and make them see how PR benefits Labour in the long term, is where you should be concentrating all your efforts.

There are far more Labour supporting votes to be made count under PR with an increase in turnout than there is Tory votes. This is the biggest single fact that is going to get this government to change to PR and we must make this point relentlessly.

If we don't, not only is the Labour Party heading for an even more right wing future, the country is heading for the travesty of democracy they have in the US, we can't let that happen. Labour have to change the electoral system now from a position of strength not waste another generation or more on Tory extremist government in the inevitable future under FPTP.

Posted by: Neil Harding at October 5, 2005 08:52 PM

Sean - "The Conservatives don't actually lose out under FPTP, as their share of seats in Parliament is roughly proportionate to their vote share" - the point I/the report was making is that this is irrelevant. It's only good in relation to the Lib Dems and the minors. Against Labour, they're screwed.

"If their vote share were to increase, they could expect their seat share to increase by more than the increase in their vote share"

Maybe, but again, not in the same way as Labour - remember they currently need an 11% lead in the vote for a majority. This is huge, and something they aren't going to achieve without a massive economic recession and the disclosure that Gordon Brown eats babies.

And as I said, there are arguments to stick with FPTP, but there are as many arguments not to, which surely merits a debate on the issue - which is all I want to see the Tories do - if they look at it and still think they're better off as they are, fair enough.

Neil - Thanks for the comments - lots to think about. One thing that particularly strikes me - how far ahead are you thinking? I'm not sure most Conservative politicians can afford to look that far into the future lest they die before they get there. They are still a very long way off achieving anything, unless we see a MASSIVE electoral backlash to whatever comes in the next four years (but really, how many more civil liberties can we be robbed of?) And then there's the 'maybe Brown won't be so bad' factor. Eventually it will swing, it always does, but a hung parliament is much more likely than a Tory govt.

One more important thing - "you say it is 'impossible' to change the boundaries in the Tory favour, but this is where I disagree. It 'may' be virtually impossible with boundaries at their present size, but not if you increase their size and also take away the onus on the boundary commission to respect natural boundaries in making their decision."

Now, I'm really not the one to talk about the boundaries, given that the author of the full report, Lewis Baston, is officially The Man when it comes to such things, but there is a passage in the full report that deals with this question, and concludes, more or less, that the boundary commission (which is independent) pays a lot more respect to traditional boundaries (e.g. the Isle of Wight question) and a few others - they are often more concerned with keeping as far as possible to natural county lines than they are to exactly evenly sized boundaries.

There are a few scenarios for an overhaul - STV would group constituencies together, but wouldn't necessitate much boundary changing. MMP would need a whole new boundary map, and radically changing the number of constituencies would do too - but I personally think this is very unlikely, and would be such a lengthy process that even if it was tabled, it could take an entire parliament to work through. But as I say, I'm a rank amateur on this issue - I'll see if Lewis has anything to say on the matter when the Tory conference is over and our office is at least partially rebuilt.

"Already over 100 Labour MPs support PR"

Not to put a dampener on things, but this is a little misleading (and perhaps I shouldn't mention it too often) but a lot of these are AV peeps, for shameless party-political reasons.

"The reason you are 'smashing your head up a brick wall' with the Tories is not because they don't realise the bias in the system but because they know the lower turnout in urban areas will favour them in the future."

I'm really not so sure, to be honest. The ease with which they talk about the boundaries, and seem to genuinely believe it says to me that they have noticed the bias, but don't understand it. I'm not sure it's an issue enough of them are that au fait with to be thinking of long-term hypothetical futures. I think in many cases they've been inculcated into the ways of FPTP and the belief that any form of PR would lead to some quasi-Weimar Germany scenario, so don't even bother thinking about it. It's impossible to know without meeting them all individually, which would be fun, if for no other reason than because they all speak so very nicely :).

And it may well be impossible convincing the Tories, but you have to appreciate the thrall of the challenge :)

Posted by: Paul Davies at October 5, 2005 09:19 PM

Excellent article Paul. I have based a blog post on it over at Oncemore. Hope that's ok!

http://www.oncemore.co.uk/2005/10/labour_forever.html

Posted by: Snafu at October 6, 2005 11:44 AM

Thanks Snafu - always glad to help :)

Nice post btw.

Posted by: Paul Davies at October 6, 2005 12:14 PM

How about this for a simple example?

Imagine all the parties only have 1 policy.

Party A to cut taxes by 10%.
Party B to increase taxes by 5%.
Party C to increase taxes by 10%.

Election result;

Party A 40% of the vote.
Party B 25% of the vote.
Party C 35% of the vote.

Under FPTP; Party A forms the government and cuts taxes. This is despite the majority-60% of the population voting for a tax increase

Under PR; Parties B and C form a coalition government and negotiate an increase in taxes between 5% and 10%, which is closer to what 60% of the electorate voted for.

Posted by: Neil Harding at October 12, 2005 11:37 AM

If you look at democracy purely through the prism of trying to calibrate the number of votes with the number of seats, it is difficult to argue cogently against PR. The main weakness of PR lies in that it breaks the link between the constituency and the MP.

This has a number of assorted disadvantages:

1. Weakened Representation - Since an MP is no longer responsible for a constituency, he feels less need to represent that constituency in Parliament, or at a regional or local level.

2. Loss of Contact - good constituency MPs spend time running constituency surgeries, attending local events and meeting local communities. Without a contiguous constituency, this doesn't happen to the same extent.

3. Loss of Accountability - could the voters of Tatton have gotten rid of Neil Hamilton in 1997 under PR? Only if they clubbed together with their region, and probably culling decent Tory MPs with him. Unpopular ministers and corrupt politicians would be given a safety net against the vicissitudes of the electorate.

4. Inability to vote for good MPs - the flip-side of the above. Good local MPs who campaign hard on constituency issues could lose their seats due to a regional setback, notwithstanding their hard work. This, in turn, will lead many not to bother with their constituecy and simply climbing the ranks in Parliament, leading to:

5. More incentive to be in Westminster than in your constituencies - being a good constituency is no guarantee of saving a seat, but being but high on the party list is such a guarantor. This can lead to everyone trying to climb the greasy pole.

6. Weakened local associations - stemming from the above points, and also from:

7. More power for party whips - who would draw up the order and personnel of a regional list, rather than the local associations.

Needless to say, these disadvantages substantially outweigh any (admitted) advantages in the voters:seats ratio.

Posted by: Alex W at October 25, 2005 02:54 PM

Hi Alex, you'll have to forgive my crudity in responding to your points, but anyone to whom PR means 'party list' or 'Israel' is generally not worth much time, as it tends to suggest they are unaware of the debate. Apologies if that sounds a bit harsh, but it's true, and goes for Jack Straw too. Basically, all of your points seem to come from a fallacious premise.

Under STV the link between constituents and MP is improved (ask Irish people, whose MPs do more work for them) - if you are fighting for your seat against people from the same party, you have to give a crap about your constituencies rather than relying on your safe seat. Only insane systems of PR which no-one is advocating remove the constituency link. All reform campaigners place the constituency link at the top of their list of priorities.

"Unpopular ministers and corrupt politicians would be given a safety net against the vicissitudes of the electorate."

That's patently nonsense, I'm afraid. How popular can Prescott possibly be? Unpopular cronies have all the protection in the world in safe seats. But what if the voters of Hull could choose between Prezza and someone literate? Sounds like that would make them more accountable to me :)

This goes along with the inability to vote for a good MP - sorry, all your arguments appear to be based on some form of closed list PR, which, I repeat, no one is advocating...

Mentioning weakened local association shows you didn't read the full post. Look at the experience of Tory MPs in Wales, for example - if they want to be listened to, they have to leave their area. As for the whips - when an MP is more reliant on their consituents than their pliability for their career, the whips have less effect. Most of your points are points against FPTP! esp 5, 6 and 7.

PR is not argued for for the sake of it, it is done on the grounds that it would most likely make govt better.

Posted by: Paul Davies at October 25, 2005 05:27 PM

All of which is very depressing if like me you are a Conservative but because you are not a Conservative you are looking at only half the argument.

The Conservatives are a unique party in British politics. Labour, Lib Dem Greens even Nationalists all have overlapping policies. Only the Conservatives and UKIP have any real overlap. Proportional Representation therefore is death to the chance of Conservative government. Only once since we were formed as a party have we ever got more than 50% of the popular vote. Therefore PR would mean that after every other election a Lib/Lab pact would have ruled the country. FPTP may not be perfect for the Conservatives but PR offers nothing. There are no Conservative arguments for PR. There are lots of arguments for a separate English parliament or "English votes" in the HofC.

Posted by: Jonathan Munday at January 22, 2006 06:13 PM

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